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	<title>Comments on: Remember that one time, when God did that thing?</title>
	<link>http://bioephemera.com/2007/01/31/remember-that-one-time-when-god-did-that-thing/</link>
	<description>the art of biology &#038; the biology of art</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 13:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: mdvlist</title>
		<link>http://bioephemera.com/2007/01/31/remember-that-one-time-when-god-did-that-thing/#comment-1022</link>
		<author>mdvlist</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Feb 2007 01:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bioephemera.com/2007/01/31/remember-that-one-time-when-god-did-that-thing/#comment-1022</guid>
		<description>Talk about brainwashing.  I just HATE listening to kids parrot back statements of belief, as if they have any idea what they're saying.  (There's a reason we're not doing infant baptism . . . .)  I cringe just thinking about the days when all of us fifth-graders had to weigh in on the presidential race during recess.  It was a lot like that video, just with Bush and Dukakis in place of evolution and creation.    I may be a scientifically ignorant Christian, but that video is probably much more distressing to me and my (fairly-educated) ilk than it is to the comfortably irreligious.  That kind of mountebank performance is SUCH an embarrassment.  My husband comes from a pretty conservative background, and he still recalls with bitterness the suggestion (from the parent of a high school classmate) that going to a mainstream university to major in philosophy was a sure-fire recipe for apostasy.  As if you could no longer accept Christianity if you actually learned and thought seriously about things (things that aren't suited to billboards or jingles).  Much as you would have to repudiate your sinful scientific "facts" if you actually read the Bible!  

Lest you despair, every single serious Christian I know (including some pretty conservative scientists) thinks that the whole evolution/creation dichotomy is a stupid waste of time, especially insofar as it exists mostly as a completely unsophisticated public-- I was going to say "debate," but it's really more like a spectacle.  Frankly, at risk of veering toward irrelevance, I think ANYTHING that directs so much effort toward the public school curriculum is stupid and a waste of time.  Since when did any of us get a decent education in the public school system anyway?  I don't think I've been held back much by what I did or didn't learn in my own podunk town of origin.   I certainly didn't go to school expecting to be inculcated with any hallowed truths.  School was about survival; education was for free time.  Until we can address that dynamic, I don't think it matters what the curriculum looks like (although I do think it shameful that the girl who was pulled out of sex ed. for "religious reasons" was pregnant by junior year).  

For the record, we didn't have any billboards there, but on my way home from school every day I did pass a giant cross, fully as tall as the house to which it was affixed, inscribed with "Jesus Loves You."  I can't say that that had any effect on the formation of my faith.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Talk about brainwashing.  I just HATE listening to kids parrot back statements of belief, as if they have any idea what they&#8217;re saying.  (There&#8217;s a reason we&#8217;re not doing infant baptism . . . .)  I cringe just thinking about the days when all of us fifth-graders had to weigh in on the presidential race during recess.  It was a lot like that video, just with Bush and Dukakis in place of evolution and creation.    I may be a scientifically ignorant Christian, but that video is probably much more distressing to me and my (fairly-educated) ilk than it is to the comfortably irreligious.  That kind of mountebank performance is SUCH an embarrassment.  My husband comes from a pretty conservative background, and he still recalls with bitterness the suggestion (from the parent of a high school classmate) that going to a mainstream university to major in philosophy was a sure-fire recipe for apostasy.  As if you could no longer accept Christianity if you actually learned and thought seriously about things (things that aren&#8217;t suited to billboards or jingles).  Much as you would have to repudiate your sinful scientific &#8220;facts&#8221; if you actually read the Bible!  </p>
<p>Lest you despair, every single serious Christian I know (including some pretty conservative scientists) thinks that the whole evolution/creation dichotomy is a stupid waste of time, especially insofar as it exists mostly as a completely unsophisticated public&#8211; I was going to say &#8220;debate,&#8221; but it&#8217;s really more like a spectacle.  Frankly, at risk of veering toward irrelevance, I think ANYTHING that directs so much effort toward the public school curriculum is stupid and a waste of time.  Since when did any of us get a decent education in the public school system anyway?  I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve been held back much by what I did or didn&#8217;t learn in my own podunk town of origin.   I certainly didn&#8217;t go to school expecting to be inculcated with any hallowed truths.  School was about survival; education was for free time.  Until we can address that dynamic, I don&#8217;t think it matters what the curriculum looks like (although I do think it shameful that the girl who was pulled out of sex ed. for &#8220;religious reasons&#8221; was pregnant by junior year).  </p>
<p>For the record, we didn&#8217;t have any billboards there, but on my way home from school every day I did pass a giant cross, fully as tall as the house to which it was affixed, inscribed with &#8220;Jesus Loves You.&#8221;  I can&#8217;t say that that had any effect on the formation of my faith.</p>
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		<title>By: cicada</title>
		<link>http://bioephemera.com/2007/01/31/remember-that-one-time-when-god-did-that-thing/#comment-1015</link>
		<author>cicada</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2007 16:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bioephemera.com/2007/01/31/remember-that-one-time-when-god-did-that-thing/#comment-1015</guid>
		<description>No billboards, thank goodness. :) Actually, the thing I find scariest is that, as Hyaena points out, this anti-science attitude crops up everywhere - even in quite normal-looking, billboard-free places. I suspect that several of my dearest friends don't believe in evolution. We don't discuss it.

I agree that it's really unfortunate when Pelosi lends herself to Michael Moore-ish caricature - I hate it when the messenger undermines the message. I also hate it when the media/blogosphere make unwarranted and inaccurate generalizations about "Red America"; you'll find me ranting about that in various comment threads. . .seems like when I'm in the city, I'm always defending my hometown, and when I'm back here, I can't wait to get away. It's just not a simple relationship, is it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No billboards, thank goodness. <img src='http://bioephemera.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> Actually, the thing I find scariest is that, as Hyaena points out, this anti-science attitude crops up everywhere - even in quite normal-looking, billboard-free places. I suspect that several of my dearest friends don&#8217;t believe in evolution. We don&#8217;t discuss it.</p>
<p>I agree that it&#8217;s really unfortunate when Pelosi lends herself to Michael Moore-ish caricature - I hate it when the messenger undermines the message. I also hate it when the media/blogosphere make unwarranted and inaccurate generalizations about &#8220;Red America&#8221;; you&#8217;ll find me ranting about that in various comment threads. . .seems like when I&#8217;m in the city, I&#8217;m always defending my hometown, and when I&#8217;m back here, I can&#8217;t wait to get away. It&#8217;s just not a simple relationship, is it?</p>
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		<title>By: Hungry Hyaena</title>
		<link>http://bioephemera.com/2007/01/31/remember-that-one-time-when-god-did-that-thing/#comment-1012</link>
		<author>Hungry Hyaena</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2007 14:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bioephemera.com/2007/01/31/remember-that-one-time-when-god-did-that-thing/#comment-1012</guid>
		<description>Ummm...a very distressing video clip.  I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.

Firstly, although I found the Pelosi snippet here interesting, I've been very disappointed in her.  I read and listened to two interviews with Ms. Pelosi and was irked by her snarky attitude about "the other" America.  She fell into the media trap of believing there is a red/blue, divided America rather than understanding it to be purple, that the "red" attitudes are as prevalent in NY State as they are Kansas.  As a rural boy by upbringing, her posturing pisses me off, especially when it's compounded by relative ignorance.  Her education aside, if I hadn't known who I was listening to or reading, I could have mistaken Pelosi for Nicole Richie.  I'm kidding, of course, but her insights were as "by the book," as wretchedly simplified, as those we hear from celebrities on the late night shows and when asked complex questions, she laughed them off and resorted to some knee-jerk liberal mantras.  I'm far left of center myself, but her agenda touting and inability to think on her feet annoyed me no end.

Secondly, I think the two of you are on the right track.  I don't know that the Bible should be &lt;i&gt;required&lt;/i&gt; reading for those in the Sciences, but certainly religious studies, more generally, should be part of the curriculum when pursuing an advanced degree.  It need not be couched in such a way that scientists are being taught religious texts so that they are better prepared to defend their own work from fundamentalists.  Indeed, I often wonder how blind the specialists are to other realms.  The more papers published in PNAS....the more at sea those first authors might be in any other realm, even another research field.  It's the ol' fox or hedgehog question again, and I'll always pick a fox.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ummm&#8230;a very distressing video clip.  I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.</p>
<p>Firstly, although I found the Pelosi snippet here interesting, I&#8217;ve been very disappointed in her.  I read and listened to two interviews with Ms. Pelosi and was irked by her snarky attitude about &#8220;the other&#8221; America.  She fell into the media trap of believing there is a red/blue, divided America rather than understanding it to be purple, that the &#8220;red&#8221; attitudes are as prevalent in NY State as they are Kansas.  As a rural boy by upbringing, her posturing pisses me off, especially when it&#8217;s compounded by relative ignorance.  Her education aside, if I hadn&#8217;t known who I was listening to or reading, I could have mistaken Pelosi for Nicole Richie.  I&#8217;m kidding, of course, but her insights were as &#8220;by the book,&#8221; as wretchedly simplified, as those we hear from celebrities on the late night shows and when asked complex questions, she laughed them off and resorted to some knee-jerk liberal mantras.  I&#8217;m far left of center myself, but her agenda touting and inability to think on her feet annoyed me no end.</p>
<p>Secondly, I think the two of you are on the right track.  I don&#8217;t know that the Bible should be <i>required</i> reading for those in the Sciences, but certainly religious studies, more generally, should be part of the curriculum when pursuing an advanced degree.  It need not be couched in such a way that scientists are being taught religious texts so that they are better prepared to defend their own work from fundamentalists.  Indeed, I often wonder how blind the specialists are to other realms.  The more papers published in PNAS&#8230;.the more at sea those first authors might be in any other realm, even another research field.  It&#8217;s the ol&#8217; fox or hedgehog question again, and I&#8217;ll always pick a fox.</p>
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		<title>By: Sciencesque</title>
		<link>http://bioephemera.com/2007/01/31/remember-that-one-time-when-god-did-that-thing/#comment-950</link>
		<author>Sciencesque</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 07:26:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://bioephemera.com/2007/01/31/remember-that-one-time-when-god-did-that-thing/#comment-950</guid>
		<description>Do you pass "Evolution is from the devil" billboards on your way to work every morning? That's scary stuff! We don't have any billboards in Alberta (yet), but we do have our own little &lt;a href="http://www.bvcsm.com/" rel="nofollow"&gt;creation science museum&lt;/a&gt;. 
I agree with your take on religion and the scientist. I spent the first 12 years of my schooling learning about religion in the Catholic school system.  Certainly, my initial exposure was to Jesus and not Einstein. As it turns out, I'm not irreligious because I'm a scientist. It's more like I'm a scientist because I'm irreligious. Also, I think that knowing something about faith might help the scientist to recognize when faith starts to creep into their own work. Maybe the bible should be required "scientific" reading?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you pass &#8220;Evolution is from the devil&#8221; billboards on your way to work every morning? That&#8217;s scary stuff! We don&#8217;t have any billboards in Alberta (yet), but we do have our own little <a href="http://www.bvcsm.com/" rel="nofollow">creation science museum</a>.<br />
I agree with your take on religion and the scientist. I spent the first 12 years of my schooling learning about religion in the Catholic school system.  Certainly, my initial exposure was to Jesus and not Einstein. As it turns out, I&#8217;m not irreligious because I&#8217;m a scientist. It&#8217;s more like I&#8217;m a scientist because I&#8217;m irreligious. Also, I think that knowing something about faith might help the scientist to recognize when faith starts to creep into their own work. Maybe the bible should be required &#8220;scientific&#8221; reading?</p>
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